Curse

Niila · Mar 03, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Noob monks make pug bad.

Winterclaw · Mar 03, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Ultimately it's the fault of the party's leader. He put that pug together and if it fails it's because he did something wrong.

trialist · Mar 03, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by enxa

Because we are playing an MMO?

Way to miss the point with an irrelevent comment.

Option A, PUGs: Failure most of the time unless unreasonable levels of effort, time is put in to ensure success.

Option B, Heroes/Henchies: Success most of the time unless you are being stupid.

Option C, Friends/Guildies/Alliance: Success most of the time along with social interaction.

Tell me if options B and C are available, why go for A? And no, your it's an MMO reason doesn't cut it. Whatever social interaction you need can be gotten from your friends/guildies/alliance, even more so if your alliance is big (there are some people i still don't really know in my alliance though we have been playing together for some time). Option B is there if you just want to complete a quest/mission without fuss. So again, why go for Option A when you know it is fail sauce and the social interaction that can be gotten there is more bad than good? Navaros has it right with his post, it just isn't worth the effort. Go on, argue your case for PUGs instead of using one liners with no substance.

Navaros · Mar 03, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Ultimately it's the fault of the party's leader. He put that pug together and if it fails it's because he did something wrong.

What he did wrong, was putting together a PUG in the first place.

That is his fault indeed.

There's isn't a large enough available pool of semi-decent PUG players out there with which to populate a semi-decent PUG. So indeed the party leader fails right off the bat by the very act of starting to make a PUG.

enxa · Mar 03, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

And I'll say this one more time : GW is NOT an MMO, it's a CORPG.

Ok its a cooperative online rpg. Which still means you should cooperate with humans. :P

As for WoW i didnt compare its gameplay to GW's, i compared players. Big difference.

Miska Bow · Mar 03, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

There's isn't a large enough available pool of semi-decent PUG players out there with which to populate a semi-decent PUG.

Yes there is, but they play with H/H lol

Kusandaa · Mar 03, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

I've had teams failing for about every reason possible. Bad monks, bad tanks, bad necros, bad nukers (yes, you can suck at nuking), overaggroing pullers, AFKers, leechers... name it, I've probably seen it. And I've been responsible for failures too (especially over-aggroing... >_> <_<). The thing is that when I make a mistake, I admit it.

Most PUGs won't.

The worse is the lack of communication between the team members, I'd say. I remember this Deep run where I was lead tank and we had this Spanish-speaking guy (amongst a French, a Japanese - the Frenchman spoke English and I could translate in Japanese). During all the run, the Spanish tank never, ever listened to us. It was hell (he'd attack onis, wouldn't wall up correctly, would follow me as I went to get mobs, etc etc). We tried to talk to him using very simple English, switched interfaces to Spanish, asked a teammate to translate, when he couldn't we asked an ALLIANCE guy to help... nothing worked. We were getting pissed.

And at the very end, one of the guys who spoke English suddenly starts speaking Spanish - we found out it was his main language. All this time, he could've helped us, but nope. He didn't. Our alliance was really pissed, left and didn't bother asking why he didn't help us out in translating the instructions.

Conclusion: If you speak more than one language... please, oh PLEASE say it when asked. It's MUCH easier to communicate when people say so...

... Oh and make sure you don't take people who can't even reply in your team chat. If they don't say "hi" right away, give them some time, but if at some point he hasn't said anything... I'm sorry, but kick.<

About leadership, it doesn't work if the other people don't follow. I bet some don't even have their radar and team chat on. I like being in lead of teams, but it's totally useless if people aren't even bothering to follow.

Navaros · Mar 03, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miska Bow

Yes there is, but they play with H/H lol

Exactly, they play with H/H or friends/Guild/Alliance exclusively, and never PUG. Therefore, they are not available in the PUG pool of players available to populate a PUG with. Like I had said.

Kusandaa · Mar 03, 2008, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Exactly, they play with H/H or friends/Guild/Alliance exclusively, and never PUG. Therefore, they are not available in the PUG pool of players available to populate a PUG with. Like I had said.

Or some, like me, PUG when they want to have a laugh or see how far a group will go because they're bored. Otherwise, I'm with my friends, guild or alliance members, if not I'm with henchies. If I'm NOT with those, I'm either chatting or offline.

Although I've been PUGging DoA for a while... but that's about the only thing I PUG beside the occasional "I'm bored so I'm gonna go PUG FoW..."

Doesn't beat alliance runs where I actually have much, much more fun.

Ouchie · Mar 03, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Ask not whose fault it is.
The fault is thine.

Is it the guy who wants to lead ~ that blames other people for wanting to lead?
Is it the guy who runs in and dies cause the monk can't get to him who complains the monk is bad?

Is it the monk who didn't bring any healing skills cause he needed his pet skills and blames the warrior for fighting?

IS it the guy who trys to run between two groups without agroing either and blames the guy who can't follow tight enough for agroing both groups?

Is it the guy who agroes two groups when you try to go between them then blames the leader for cutting it too close for them to make?

Is it the guy who rage quits or the guy who makes people rage quit?

Is it the leecher or the guy that turns off all chat and team chat during missions and has no idea dog is being sick and you'll be back in a minute or two

Is it the guy who didn't bring a rez cause he aint the monk or the monk who brought 4 rezes cause everyone tends to die a lot

did the Sin do it? or is that any easy answer why the mission failed?

Don't we all make mistakes no matter how long we have played or how skilled we are or how fast we are?

I could go on but instead I'll say

It's MINE

all MINE

I accept responsibility for every pug that ever failed ~ otherwise we never find out who is to blame ~ if anyone

Nanood · Mar 03, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

I spoke to my heroes and henchies since they are my PUG and everyone pointed at Devona.

JONO51 · Mar 03, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

the big problem I have is time wasting. i dont have 30 mins to form a group for a 15 min mission, then have a wipe/leaver 2 mins in causing everyone to go back to town and leave the party. H/H is quicker and more successful most of the time.

Abedeus · Mar 03, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanood

I spoke to my heroes and henchies since they are my PUG and everyone pointed at Devona.

I suggest a revenge. Go with her one-on-one to Ice Floe, get Shadow Form and run into a group of ice imps/mursaats/jades.

And usually if pugs fail, it's because there is no leader OR people are idiots. Like yesterday, we were doing UW and we did Clear the Chamber. Guess what, someone took all quests. We lost after 15 minutes, soul was killed by Vengeful Aatxe. Next time I said I'll tell what quests and when to do them... And even if it was my first time on a full run, we finished UW in 2h 15 minutes. But then again, I ain't going with PuG anymore. I think I'll try with my alliance, lul.

isamu kurosawa · Mar 03, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanood

I spoke to my heroes and henchies since they are my PUG and everyone pointed at Devona.

I think my heroes are racist. They always blame zhed.

According to vekk, zhed doesn't even do well as a pack-mule. Crazy little buggar.

romeus petrus · Mar 03, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

In general PuGs in high end PvE are a bad idea. There is not a whole lot you or anyone else can do to correct that. Simple solution is do not PuG.

RhanoctJocosa · Mar 03, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

lmao, do you guys remember the monk strike? i think it was early 06/ late 05.

good times

BlueSS · Mar 03, 2008, 09:00 PM // 21:00

THK Monk Strike was 25th of February 2006.

There were also 2 monk strikes in Lion's Arch July/August 2005 but those were small ones.

aapo · Mar 03, 2008, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by enxa

But whose fault it is when a PUG fails?

- Leader's, for not making sure that the party is working together. There's signs that can be seen from mile away: not checking skillbars, taking underleveled and strange profession players and spammers, rushing in, not guiding the team...

Quote:

Originally Posted by enxa

Why exactly is it your fault?
You simply didnt do enough to add to the team.

- I don't see how you can say with a straight face that if someone leaves in the middle of mission without saying anything, everyone else should feel guilty and start contemplating what they did wrong.

Aera Lure · Mar 03, 2008, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Heroes are the reason, ultimately.

Prior to heroes, a higher number of players PUGed, through either choice or necessity, and they therefore were better at all the things it takes to have a successful PUG.

Nowadays skill in PvE play is focused more heavily towards running a hero or H/H team. You dont need to change your plan of action, cooperate, communicate, compromise or exhibit any patience with heroes.

I'm not saying its necessarily a bad thing (though I personally think it is), as that's a different topic. Prior to the introduction of heroes I was in PUGs all the time as I enjoyed the interaction and dynamics, and very rarely had any major trouble. The occasional difficult player, but nothing the party wouldnt overcome. Played through Protector titles on six characters that way, something I'd call near impossible with PUGs nowadays and I wouldnt even want to try.

isamu kurosawa · Mar 03, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

lmao, do you guys remember the monk strike? i think it was early 06/ late 05.

good times

I do and i seid the same thing to them. Stop complaining about your pugs and stop using them. Back then it was easier to find a good guild as a monk as long as you yourself didnt suck, if you do then the complaints you get from pugs is deserved.